Passing it on

Lessons from our Grandparents, Elders and Ancestors

May 03, 2025

Jordan and I first met when he attended one of my relationship workshops back in 2018. I can remember him staying behind afterwards and us chatting and connecting over our shared histories. Both mixed race Londoners, both grew up with absent black fathers who had addiction issues, and we both had complex relationships with our white mothers. Jordan later went on to participate in the 5 day residential retreat I co-founded called The Bridge and has spoken extensively about his experience in various interviews and podcasts, including writing about it in his book ADHD. I also wrote a whole book about the now closed retreat, called The Bridge and a documentary was made about it’s work in 2018, which you can watch for free if you want to, via this link: Loved

Jordan and I have stayed in touch and built a beautiful friendship over the years, despite, or perhaps because of our 25 year age difference. Like many modern friendships we share a lot of deep and light conversations via our What’s App voice notes. I know these conversations enrich both of our lives. I consider myself both a friend and elder to Jordan, and he is also a wise young (and ancient) mentor to me.

A little known fun fact….

My voice has been included in 2 of Jordan’s tracks (I know!) One is the brilliant ‘Star’ from 2022, and more recently on the Rizzle Kicks track - It's a tricky one from their exceptional album, Competition is for Losers, (and yes I am shamelessly bragging about this…wouldn’t you?!). #egoalert

Gratitude

As a genuine thank you for your support in subscribing to our respective Substacks, we decided to offer our subscribers this special joint newsletter. It includes a written dialogue between us, discussing our thoughts and feelings about the role of grandparents, elders and ancestors in both of our lives. So grab yourself a cuppa, put your feet up and enjoy. xx

Grandparents, Elders and Ancestors

D: Jordan, you wrote your first children’s book - The Missing Piece in 2022 and have spoken about the inspiration in part being your grandmothers and their role in your childhood. Can you share a little about who they were, what they meant to you and how this has shaped you as a man?

J: I had both grandmothers as a child. Both grandfathers died before I was born. Which is a shame, of course. They live in my mind as photos and frameworks stitched together with stories and pure imagination. I really didn’t have that many men around. I would have loved to. Instead, many of my core memories revolved around the guidance and generosity of these two elders. One Guyanese, one British. The majority of my core loving memories as a child derive from my time with these two women. A space where I felt safe, as I mention in my book.

My British grandma was one of my earliest proponents of discipline. We used to have a thing called elevenses. Snack time after breakfast where I was allowed one biscuit but only if I finished my nuts and raisins. I’m actually pretty disciplined now and I wonder if that early practise is part of my wiring. My Guyanese grandma is a big reason as to why I love words and enjoy writing. And in terms of my idea of manhood. She would, whenever I saw her, encourage me to recite ‘IF’ by Rudyard Kipling. A poem she knew every word to. Which, as I’ve grown older, has only become more complex and confusing emotionally. Kipling very much a part of the British colonial project. An empire my grandmother was raised to adore. For me it also doesn’t change the brilliance of the piece itself. What’s being translated, whether it’s from Kipling himself or a power beyond any of us, brought my grandma to life and remains in my own mind now.

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or, being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise…..

A stanza from the poem ‘If’ by Rudyard Kipling - circa 1895

D: I love the idea that your ‘elevenses’ with your grandmother might have supported you to become more disciplined in your life. Delayed gratification is so important I believe in our world of immediacy, quick fixes and the subsequent entitlement that this can bring.

So, how do you see a grandmothers role differing from a grandfathers (if at all)? Both in your life and more broadly?

J: Honestly, I have no idea. My girlfriend often tells me stories of her grandfather and the core themes feel the same. Safety, guidance and being occasionally spoilt. Grandads seem to die first in the stories I’ve heard. It’s difficult to know without having experienced the difference myself. One thing worth mentioning is the men in our generation of grandfathers perhaps aren’t as forthcoming as they may be in the future. Burdened with a lifetime of withholding.

I feel as though generally speaking the grandparent or carer is unbelievably essential to a child’s development because they’re a degree away from the parent. And to be honest the qualities we develop with age seem to compliment the chaos of infancy. Patience, warmth and even impaired hearing can be helpful if you think about it. Wild thing to say I know. Also important to note that not everyone had a good time with their grandparents, unfortunately.

D: That’s so true. Lots of grandparents carry their own unprocessed trauma, which prevents them from showing up for their grandchildren or themselves. I know plenty of 60/70 year olds that are still frozen inside as traumatised 5 years olds. I grew up myself without any grandparents in my life and I sometimes wonder what roots and stability I might have developed in those early years, had this been different.

Now at 58 years old and having done decades of healing myself, I see my part in actively helping to raise my 3 grandsons as one of the most important roles of my life, and a fundamental part of my role as an elder. I believe I am able to bring a very tender, playful and heart led approach to their lives, which can be more tricky for their parents when busy managing the day to day practicals of living and working etc. A lot of my grandparenting involves taking the boys into the natural world and helping them to slow down and appreciate the more simple and profound aspects of life.

This period of my life with them also feels like a second chance in many ways, given how I was so young and traumatised when raising my own children, and so made a lot of mistakes. I wrote about this in A Grandmothers confession

D: Research consistently shows that grandparents play a vital role in children's well-being, particularly when they are actively involved in their lives. Grandparent involvement is linked to improved emotional development, social adjustment, and cognitive functioning in children, especially during adolescence. A study of more than 1,500 children showed that those with a high level of grandparental involvement had fewer emotional and behavioural problems.

What do you see as the role of grandparents in society more broadly? How might they help to counteract some of the more seductive pulls on a child’s attention and mind. I’m thinking of the tv show ‘Adolescence’ here, and as a grandmother myself I can’t help but wonder what possible difference an actively involved grandparent might have made to Jamie’s life. What do you think?

J: Well for a lot of people their grandparents are their escape. Their outlet. I say it a lot but I really do believe that it takes a village to raise a child. The working parent nowadays is completely swamped. Some people are having to work two or three jobs to keep the heating on. Without grandparents, or at least other carers, children are left to find other forms of ‘connection’. And nowadays some of those connections are weak and shallow. Grandparents provide the immediate understanding that we must respect our elders. And in turn, we’re offered life lessons, stability and every now and again - a biscuit.

In regards to Jamie from Adolescence specifically, it’s up for debate as to whether or not an extra level of guidance could have helped him. I’ve personally struggled to believe that simply a dad with anger issues and the internet can turn a child into an actual murderer. We were left to fester and make conclusions ourselves. Jamie could have been a psychopath. One thing that is for sure though, is that simply being there, and being patient, can help a child feel safe. Boys can be difficult but they crave connection and love like every human being.

D: As you know I see myself as an ‘elder in training’ and feel passionately about the need for more older people to step up and prepare for this important role. I wrote about this previously in A Becoming

What is your understanding of Elders and how they differ from grandparents?

J: I feel like it’s a duty to offer teachings to up and coming generations. It’s beyond choice. Especially if we are particularly good at communicating. I don’t feel as though we should be prescriptive or controlling, but being available to guide when needed is essential. Certain elements of life will have changed dramatically over the course of decades but it’ll take a lot to remove the core tenants of our existence. The desire to love and be loved. Those are forever lessons. Our connection to self.

It’s our responsibility to pass down what we know to protect ancient understanding and give younger people all the available information to eventually come to their own conclusions. I struggle with watching people make poor decisions. Often the same ones that I made. But I’ve learned that I have to create a healthy distance between my life and others so as not to impede their own personal growth in the long run.

D: As someone who grew up not having access to grandparents or Elders, I have had to find my own through other avenues. I view people like Maya Angelou, Anne Lamott, Mary Oliver, Nick Cave, Nelson Mandela and Father Greg Boyle as the Elders I choose. I have been taught so much by their shared wisdom and inspired by their ways of being in the world. I also have Spiritual Elders who are not older than me in age, but are more mature in their Soul’s journey. So one of my guides and teachers is called Quanita Roberson. Her work and wisdom have been an incredible source of support for me in my elder training and beyond.

What Elders do you have in your life now and how do they support and guide you?

J: Donna, you are my main elder. I really feel as though life pushed us together and I’m rolling with it. I feel honoured that I am able to reach out to you. And very lucky. Outside of our bond I’d say Gabor Mate is someone I massively look up to and listen out for. I’ve taken his lead on a lot of matters of the heart. He’s shown me the power of transparency and how invaluable wisdom can be in times of crises. The internet is flooded with smart, reactive people. But it’s important not to lose sight of how valuable it is receiving the insight of people who have watched behavioural patterns that span generations.

D: Oh Jordan I am so honoured to be your main elder, and alongside Gabor no less! I feel very lucky too, because we have such a beautiful Soul connection and I totally agree that Life somehow orchestrated this. You are such an important person in my life and have taught me so much. Thank you.

Ancestors and Legacies

D: Ok, so let’s talk Ancestors. Mine play such a major role in my day to day life. I take a moment each day to acknowledge them through lighting a candle for them on my altar, and then I do my best to honour them by how I choose to live. For example, I know that my African Ancestors on my father’s side were slaves, so I make sure to live intentionally and with deep respect and gratitude for the sacrifices they made for me, in order that my feet remain unshackled and that I can live as a free woman today.

What relationship do you have with your own Ancestors and how do they influence your day to day life? How do you honour them and live in a way that appreciates the sacrifices they made for you? Why do you believe it is important for us to acknowledge and honour our Ancestors? (3 big questions in one!!)

J: Wow, what questions. I was actually just listening to podcast that spent a while on this topic. There was an author who was discussing how much he loved the 2nd Black Panther movie. The one that came in the wake of Chadwick Boseman’s tragic passing. He spoke about how important it was to note that Black Panther’s only real “power” was to receive guidance from the anscestors. Outside of that it was simply science and minerals. Nothing “mutant”. He believes that’s an important message to dwell on. I agree.

My mum raised me to thank my allies and ancestors. I even invented my own version of the Christ gesture people do before playing a sport or after a near miss. Mind, body, soul, love, peace. I finish the gesture with two fingers facing the sky. I’m acutely aware of what I carry in my genetics. With added complications, as you too will know. Carrying the spirit of slaves and potentially slave owners is quite something.

Recently I’ve begun to focus on my ongoing desire to change my name. I want to break the continuation of a name that would have been forcably applied to a human being to mark them as property. “Stephens” of course isn’t particularly west African. When I told my dad that I wanted to reclaim my last name and shed myself of the memory of ownership, he wasn’t as giddy as I would have hoped. Instead he wondered if I’d considered the move to be disrespectful. Being that there is a whole lineage who carry that name and have redefined it through their “success”. Regardless of where it came from. I’ve been in touch with a cousin and discussed it. Turns out she’s always thought of doing the same thing.

D: This is so interesting to me because when I got married, I changed my name. Not because I believe in taking on the name of your husband, but because I had a deep intuition that I needed to distance myself from my father’s last name. Like somehow that name came with so much trauma and intergenerational pain attached to it. I married and divorced very young, but kept my married last name for this reason. I have also considered changing my first name. Partly because Donna never seemed to feel like my name and was chosen by two traumatised people before they even met me, (Donna was a popular name back in the 60s I believe!) But in recent years I have started to feel like I can wear this first name. That it finally fits me. Just don’t ask me to share my middle name!

Ok, so my final question - what’s your thoughts about leaving a positive legacy behind? Is it important to you, and if so what do you intend for yours to be?

J: Tough one. Immediately I have to bat away the negative connotations I have attached to that word. Father’s naming sons. Last names guarded. Businesses being handed down. None of those are individually negative either, it’s more the culture that emerges alongside them. Perhaps people don’t even see that as legacy. Maybe I’m getting my words confused. I think of legacy as something left, for sure. I’ve said before - I want to continue to write words that live beyond me. If they are to affect people in a propulsive way. In full awareness of my tiny existence. In the grand scheme of everything. To be able to connect long after I’m returned to source. What a blessing.

Outside of that my best chance at continuing a wave or ripple would be in terms of having children. Using what I’ve learnt to shift, lift and change their futures. Shed some baggage. And believe in their potential. Beyond that maybe I don’t even think about legacy. In the words of Fiona Apple. “I’ve only one thing to do and that’s, be the wave that I am and then, sink back into the ocean.” Maybe it’s all outside of my control and I just surrender to that. Turn my attention to my every day intention and try and keep that shit authentic.

D: This seems like a perfect place to end our conversation for now. Thank you so much Jordan, for such a rich and deep conversation. I’ll ‘see’ you over on What’s App as usual. Shine on xx

"I am leaving this legacy to all of you...to bring peace, justice, equality, love and a fulfilment of what our lives should be. Without vision, the people will perish, and without courage and inspiration, dreams will die—the dream of freedom and peace."

Rosa Parks - Civil Rights Activist

A Pilgrimage for the Soul

Discussion about this post